The Pocalypse Defense 2 Ideas and Brainstorming

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Eldaran
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Re: The Pocalypse Defense 2 Ideas and Brainstorming

Postby Eldaran » 28 Feb 2012, 12:25

Walls? well, if you make them then it would be a nice touch if you could block the path. but the walls are destructable. It would make more sense for me (defending castles, battlestations, etc... for a decade) Nobody would let a whole in the wall (except they want to make mazes) So maybe leaving the possibility open to make a maze (than if there is a free path, the enemy will follow it, if not, attack the nearest wall.

Also one thing, when i played Plants vs. Zombies, i hated it that i never had enough space to build my stuff. (I KNOW that its what it makes difficult) but there are other ways to make the game more difficult. Because (as i said) i love to let the enemy run against my walls.
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Joe
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Re: The Pocalypse Defense 2 Ideas and Brainstorming

Postby Joe » 28 Feb 2012, 16:57

Thank you all so much for sharing your ideas for The Pocalypse Defense 2 (TPD2 from now on :D)! How about we continue designing this thing together :D

Thanks to your ideas, I've changed the design document and made the game a bit simpler, with less units. You were right that with a lot of units, one could find an "ultimate" build that would render all the other units obsolete. I found that that was one of the problems with Plants Vs Zombies, which has 50 units to choose from. Eventually, when everything was unlocked, I found a build that I repeated over and over and never lost. Repetitive, boring, and the beginning units were never used again!

Many of you mentioned Kingdom Rush, which I have played before. I feel that Kingdom Rush embraces simplicity and does it right. With only 4 upgradable towers to choose from, there is no ultimate build and every level requires the right placement and the right upgrades. Although Kingdom Rush features the traditional "maze map/path" tower defense system, unlike TPD2, we can still see how less is more :D

However, having something TOO simple may alienate more skilled players. Since we're not going with the "maze map/path" system, the strategical aspect of many great TD games can't be applied to TPD2. So, the challenge and complexity will come from placing the right units in the the right places to counter specific enemies (ex. Vampire Hunter vs. Vampire) and from using Hero units effectively.

Here's what we've come up with! :D (Note the art is obviously not final)

Image
As you can see, TPD2 looks very similar to TPD1. Enemies will come from the bottom-right and you have to defend the top-left, which won't always be New Hammerston's gate. When you choose an empty cell, a pop-up menu will appear that will allow you to place your desired unit. This menu will be context-sensitive, so if you choose an existing unit, a menu will appear that will let you upgrade the unit or sell it.

Units attack automatically when an enemy is in their range, including Heroes. So, unlike TPD1, you won't be able to manually control your units.

To place a unit or upgrade it, you'll need sufficient Scrap Parts (SP), instead of the Credits in TPD1. To accumulate SP, you need to place Salvager units that will periodically find SP and present it to you to be collected. Here are your units and how their upgrades branch out!

ex.
Base Unit
--> Upgrade Path 1
----> Upgrade Path 1A
----> Upgrade Path 1B
--> Upgrade Path 2
----> Upgrade Path 2A
etc...

****************

Militia ("M" in the image)
--> Conscript
----> Shotgun'r
------> Hacker
------> Zombie Hunter
------> Vampire Slayer
------> Weed Whacker
----> Gunslinger
------> Hacker
------> Zombie Hunter
------> Vampire Slayer
------> Weed Whacker

Infantry ("I" in the image)
--> Sniper
----> Night Stalker
--> Machine Gunner
----> Laser Gunner
--> Medic

Mortar Team ("T" in the image)
--> Autocannon
----> Laser Cannon
--> Missile Launcher
----> Howitzer

Salvager ("S" in the image)
----> Salvage Engineer
------> Super Salvage Set

Specialist ("P" in the image)
--> Disabler
----> SLO Rocket Launcher
--> Toxin Shooter
----> Toxin Grenade Launcher

Drone ("D" in the image)
--> Shield Drone
----> Hoplite
--> Multi-Shot
----> Mecha-Infantry

Land Mine ("L" in the image) - not really a unit, but rather a supplemental piece of equipment that can be placed to damage enemies that step on it.

Bunker ("B" in the image) - also not a unit, but a Bunker can be placed "on top" of a unit to absorb damage, until it is destroyed.

****************

So! As you can see, we're down to 6 base units and a grand total of 31 units :D I'll explain what they do later, but I'd love to hear your thoughts and ideas!

What do you think so far? I hope this sparks some brainstorming that will help us design the best game possible! Sorry if I don't respond to everyone! Don't worry, I read everything you send me! :D

Thank you so much for weighing in and if you have any questions, ask away! Next time: Hero units!
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Silverware
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Re: The Pocalypse Defense 2 Ideas and Brainstorming

Postby Silverware » 28 Feb 2012, 19:07

I approve.
I would suggest building a basic demo, one level, infinite waves of enemies.
just to test the units, and balance it a little before you go too deep into it.
Kai_Wren
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Re: The Pocalypse Defense 2 Ideas and Brainstorming

Postby Kai_Wren » 28 Feb 2012, 20:00

Hi, Joe.

I really like first Pocalypse Defense game. Because of this game on Kongregate I've discovered The Pocalypse comics!:) So I am very excited about next game. I can suggest you to look on Defender's Quest game link that I've found very intresting and with good ideas (there are demo on Kongregate). And on emore game for inspiration - Zombie Misfits

And fwew more comments about tower defence games:
1) Make chalange mode with different victory aims. Not only Story and Survival.
2) Make in game achivments with valuable and useful ingame prizes.
3) Inventory and expirience is obligatory.

I will think about new ideas and share it with you ASAP.

Have a nice day.
AdricTheGreat
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Re: The Pocalypse Defense 2 Ideas and Brainstorming

Postby AdricTheGreat » 29 Feb 2012, 15:31

Is there going to be the "Recruiting new survivors" thing from the first game? If so you should make it more worthwhile, after a few rounds I stopped focusing on the people running to the gate. If they made it they made it, but it wasn't that useful having more people. Maybe make your units come from a pool of people you have, so saving people becomes more important?

For the new one, the grid seems pretty small. 5x30 is ok, but I think it will limit the variation in formations and placements that people use. Maybe widen it up to 8 or even 10x30? Those buildings and so forth on both sides look nice I suppose, but they don't really add to the game, and when you are working with limited space it seems silly not to make the most of what you have.

Maybe have an optional minigame between waves where you can take your hero unit out to scavenge for supplies/find survivors/get a bit more exp? It could be optional (as a chance to get extra resources or experience, with the potential of losing your hero if things go poorly) or it could be forced "we only have 3 food left" or "I'm picking up a radio signal, more survivors are out there and we are running low on people after that last assault."

I'm really liking the direction you are taking this game and I look forward to seeing how it turns out. If you need any help with alpha testing, I'm a remarkably good bug finder.
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Re: The Pocalypse Defense 2 Ideas and Brainstorming

Postby ZidaneRobbie » 29 Feb 2012, 15:50

Thanks to your ideas, I've changed the design document and made the game a bit simpler, with less units. You were right that with a lot of units, one could find an "ultimate" build that would render all the other units obsolete. I found that that was one of the problems with Plants Vs Zombies, which has 50 units to choose from. Eventually, when everything was unlocked, I found a build that I repeated over and over and never lost. Repetitive, boring, and the beginning units were never used again!


Thanks for mentioning that. Yeah, achievement unlocked!: Help joe with inspires for his PD2. 5000G lol.

Well the maze was kinda a good idea, if you haven't heard of Desktop TD and GemCraft (man that game is sweet)

Gemcraft is slightly different, You got this single tower but you put different gems into it, adapting it to different situations. There are lots of these. Some do damage based on your sprees, some chain attack and those that 'poison' the victim. You can mix and match gems too so that hybrid gems can do all three mentioned above. great game that.
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Kai_Wren
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Re: The Pocalypse Defense 2 Ideas and Brainstorming

Postby Kai_Wren » 29 Feb 2012, 17:10

What have you think about idea use buildings around as positions for some units. For example, flamethrower that will set on fire not vertical line, but horizontal one. Or grenade thrower, that will cover square 3x3 from building where it placed. In this case we could add some fortification options on each building and assign some repairmans and so on.
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Joe
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Re: The Pocalypse Defense 2 Ideas and Brainstorming

Postby Joe » 29 Feb 2012, 20:04

AdricTheGreat wrote:Is there going to be the "Recruiting new survivors" thing from the first game? If so you should make it more worthwhile, after a few rounds I stopped focusing on the people running to the gate. If they made it they made it, but it wasn't that useful having more people. Maybe make your units come from a pool of people you have, so saving people becomes more important?


No, I don't think the survivors will appear in TPD2, mostly since battles will take place in areas far from New Hammerston :D

AdricTheGreat wrote:For the new one, the grid seems pretty small. 5x30 is ok, but I think it will limit the variation in formations and placements that people use. Maybe widen it up to 8 or even 10x30? Those buildings and so forth on both sides look nice I suppose, but they don't really add to the game, and when you are working with limited space it seems silly not to make the most of what you have.


I agree 100%! The New Hammerston stage will be what you see, but as you progress and unlock more units, the stages will become larger and more challenging :D In TPD2, New Hammerston is just the beginning!
aattss
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Re: The Pocalypse Defense 2 Ideas and Brainstorming

Postby aattss » 01 Mar 2012, 06:45

AdricTheGreat wrote:
Maybe have an optional minigame between waves where you can take your hero unit out to scavenge for supplies/find survivors/get a bit more exp? It could be optional (as a chance to get extra resources or experience, with the potential of losing your hero if things go poorly) or it could be forced "we only have 3 food left" or "I'm picking up a radio signal, more survivors are out there and we are running low on people after that last assault."

I'm really liking the direction you are taking this game and I look forward to seeing how it turns out. If you need any help with alpha testing, I'm a remarkably good bug finder.


I'm not sure about the minigame, as it might take away resources to essentially develop a smaller but unrelated game.

Also, anyone can say they're good at alpha testing. It's generally recommended for someone to do alpha with friends or specifically hired people, and then closed beta with a group randomly selected from volunteers.
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Joe
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Re: The Pocalypse Defense 2 Ideas and Brainstorming

Postby Joe » 01 Mar 2012, 16:12

Thank you all for your continued input and ideas for TPD2! :D

Now, let’s talk about our Hero units :D Hero units are placed into the battlefield just like regular units. They are stronger, have different special skills, and gain levels by accumulating experience from killing enemies and winning battles. You can only bring one Hero into a battle, so you have to choose the Hero whose skills will best counter the enemies in the stage. Here are our Heroes and some ideas for their abilities!

Joe/Powerfist
- Mind-crafter: Able to place Mind Blocks to block incoming enemy waves.
- SUPER FANTASTIC TORNADO ATTACK! – Deals heavy damage to surrounding units.

Jess/Sentinel
- Heavy Armour: Higher HP, but, if she is removed from the battlefield, you must wait 20 seconds to re-place her.
- Multi-rocket: Shoots a multiple warhead rocket that deals heavy area damage.

Bernie/Arbiter
- Improve Tech: Bernie can improve the power of his weapon.
- Bulls-eye!: Instantly kills an enemy unit.

Jake
- Respected Veteran: Infantry units cost less Scrap Parts to place.
- Hold Your Ground!: Once placed, Jake cannot be removed from the battlefield.

Doc
- Yes, That Should Work: Increases the amount of Scrap Parts (SP) found per salvage.
- Where Am I?: Doc randomly forgets where he is and stops firing his weapon for 5 seconds.

Again, these are just a few ideas and I’d love to hear yours! Of course, when we are balancing the game, things will have to be tweaked :D

Many of you have mentioned that the Heroes should start in “base” form and “transform” as they gain levels (ex. Bernie -> Stinger -> Arbiter). That is something I’ll have to think about! :D I like the idea of having a small skill tree for each character’s abilities and maybe the different forms can be incorporated into something like that. Also, I know that many of you want Scrufflebeck to be a hero! :D I’ll think about that too!

What do you think so far? Any abilities that you’d like our Heroes to have?

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